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Submitted by Pierre on

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What from your fly resemble the original Thunder & Lightning? The original fly is one of the most famous of James Wright. It dates from about 1850, which means that this year marks 170 years. The main feature is a combination of colors and elements of the design of the fly. Brown wing, black body, orange body hackel, gold ribbing and a deep blue front hackel. Thunder & Lightning is part of Simple Strip Wings classical salmon flies. In the orignal classic version, the most striking detail is the orange body hackel. It is already from the originator a very simple fly. Sorry but your fly is what it is and not even a copy, or a variant.

Submitted by Pierre on

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Yes, of course, Martin, I also appreciate Steffan's effort to do the video and to make a deadly fly known.
But as you say, when you do an internet search for a fly if you don't know what the original looks like, you will find all kinds of options. How will you know then what you should do? As books are no longer bought as they were for 25, 30 or 50 years ago, when we found the story behind the flies and how they were tied, I always wonder how the new generations will carry the tradition and pay respect to the pioneers. These are issues that sometimes make me sad. But when I see a young man with the same passion that I had more than 45 years ago and I see his hands tremble with emotion holding an original fly in his hand, I forget the moments of sadness and I am happy. We have many anonymous young people out there on the river, who will not forget to respect those who laid the foundations of modern fly fishing. I met them and they brightened those sad days with clouds and heavy rains. :)

Pierre,

You are so right, and it's a common problem in my eyes, that people tie flies inspired by other patterns, but still call them the original name. In the case of the Sunray Shadow, you are dealing with a really classic archetype of a fly pattern, and you owe to the originator, Ray Brooks, to stick to the brilliant simplicity of the pattern.

But it's a battle against windmills, and personally I kind of enjoy seeing the wealth of variation, but still feel annoyed by the mess that tyers add to a world of patterns, which is messed up already.

Viewers and readers can see the original Sunray Shadow here:
https://globalflyfisher.com/patterns/sunray-shadow

and read a story about how wild things can go when patterns catch on, and take on a life of their own here:
https://globalflyfisher.com/patterns-tie-better/the-evolution-of-a-fly

I will in all this say that I still highly appreciate the effort by tyers like Steffan who take the time to put together videos for me to share and all you to enjoy.

Thanks!

Martin

Submitted by Pierre on

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It is the simplest tubfly. Without a body defined by a moment of tying, only the plastic tube. Its name has been associated for decades with simplicity. Why call a long-winged fly The Sunray Shadow if it's not actually The SS? Altering the originals by the appearance of some variants does not do good to the new generations of fly tiers who learn that if a Kia resembles a Mercedes, we put the emblem in front and the name pasted there in the back, then we have a Mercedes. I can understand that this fly is inspired by a Sunray Shadow, but it can just as well be inspired by Spey Ghilli or another fly that has a long or very long wing. I'm sorry Steffan! :)

Paul,

The videos posted on this site feature hundreds of different tyers, and some use a Regal. I still don't fancy the Regals much, and use my trusted LAW vise for all my tying - including when I film videos to be featured here.

So no, I didn't change my mind.

Martin

Submitted by Paul on

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I noticed that subsequent to this post you seem to be using the Regal Revolution for your production tying (in a video of your fly tying room). Did you change your opinion on the vise?

SoCalAngler,

No, you aren't missing anything, but just found an example of the inconsistency of tying thread sizing... the whole motivation for me doing this article and table in the first place. The threads are clearly not the same - different physical thicknesses - and still you will see them listed as the same Denier.

In my eyes the only proper way to categorize thread would be physical thickness, breaking strength, material (nylon, poly, GSP) and fiber layout (spun, braided, parallel, fused etc.). That would avoid such confusing cases.

Trust the physical thickness in the table. I have personally measured almost all threads. And trust your experience when it comes to breaking strength (it's difficult to measure consistently). The Veevus threads are generally pretty strong.

Martin

Submitted by SoCalAngler on

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With regard to Veevus.....how can they have different aught sizes (ex. 6/0, 8/0, 10/0) which are distinctly different sized threads, out of a material of the same denier? The math doesn't work here. Am I missing something?

Andrés,

I will try to reply for Martyn. I can see that the hook is fairly large for the size of the fly, and my guess is that size 8-10 will work fine. The Kamasan hooks are thin wire (B170) and heavy wire (B175), and can be hard to find in smaller sizes than 10.

Martin

Don,

I see no reason why it shouldn't. It's a great allround fly, which is definitely worth trying on almost any river.

Martin

Submitted by don stauss on

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how would the usual fly work on the Mettawee river,thanks Don

FYI Overtons Wonder wax is now available. I saw it at the Edison Show this year (2020)Hold on to your wallets the price tag is steep $16.99 a tube. Same color tube. Not making any promises but this is a promising thing.No I did not take the plunge. But I was wondering if there is any feedback on it now that a replacement is available. Thans

Submitted by Erik van den Berg on

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What a delightful short movie. Clearly made by someone who truly appreciates what saltwater seatrout fishing has to offer. Really inspiring1

Pierre,

That's not quite true... the flies have been tested in water and do land and float as intended.

And they will stay in shape like other deer hair flies such as EHC's, CDC&Elks, Comparaduns, Funnel Duns and even muddlers, which do not collapse in water in spite of using flared deer hair much the same way as these flies. This will especially be the case if the flies are prepared with a little floatant such as Muceline or CDC oil, which is recommended for many deer hair dry flies anyway, and also mentioned in the article.

Sure enough, these flies aren't "proven classics", which have taken thousands of fish, but the concept will work as intended, we're sure.

Martin

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